Gronkiewicz-Waltz: 'We need construction, not destruction'
She says: "The period of revolution is finished. We don't need more political wars. We need construction, not destruction."
As a Warsaw University law professor specializing in Western banking systems when she was named to head the central bank four years ago, she won high marks for being a quick study on core issues of inflation and monetary policy. In high-visibility skirmishes with Finance Minister Grzegorz Kolodko during the past year, she won credibility which ultimately fueled her presidential bid as an alternative to Walesa, whom polls showed would lose in a face-off against SLD leader Aleksander Kwasniewski. She initially said she would not run if Walesa did but when he dallied and her support mushroomed, she took the plunge anyway. By late summer, she appeared to have emerged as a major challenger for the first-round vote on Nov. 5.
Since mid-September, she has been buffeted by two factors. Her very public embrace by many Catholic groups initially was a plus, until the backlash against the church's from-the-pulpit directives for Catholics to vote against non-believers, such as Kwasniewski, and its heavy-handed criticism of a movie about a gay priest. When Walesa entered the race, he targeted her as the person to beat, with attacks ranging from ridicule to hardball accusations that she is not tough enough for the job. Lately, he has called her a "new sheep," a mysterious charge repeated frequently by the Walesa-supported Radio Maria channel that implies she may have been a Communist before she was a capitalist - or only recently converted to Catholicism.
Belatedly, she has toughened her stance against Walesa. At her Sunday news conference she said "Most of us don't want Poland to be governed by post-communists; nevertheless, we cannot accept the procedures or models of Lech Walesa. We can't afford that." She said she wants a government run by the rule of law, with transparent standards that apply to everyone. Government officials cannot also hold business positions, she said, alluding to scandals concerning the current SLD-PSL coalitions and some of Walesa's associates.
She talked about the campaign and her worst-case fears if the SLD won in an interview with the Warsaw Business Journal's John Grech and Peggy Simpson.
Q: Was there one thing that made you decide to make the move into presidential politics some months ago?
A: I think I was always in politics, but I wasn't the front person. In 1980 I started with the Solidarity movement. At that time, of course, it was not a trade union but a political movement. After 1989, I was the head of the union at my faculty.
Q: The Solidarity Union at the law faculty?
A: Yes. In 1991 I was a candidate (for Parliament) of one of the very small parties. I not only supported the president, we wanted to explain to the president that he needs his own (political base), that he must have this political support. But he didn't want it. Also since 1989, I was an expert in Parliament, so I was in politics in this sense.
Q: You had been politically close to Walesa, and then you made the decision to run against him. Why was that?
A: It was about six months ago, because I found out that the results of five years were not satisfying, and I was very sorry to hear his words when he said (in 1993) that he wanted to support the left leg (leftists). Of course, I didn't say it at that time publicly.
Q: What's your niche today?
A: The one person who can fight against Kwasniewski is me. President Walesa has very strong negatives, people who say they will never vote for him ... I also believe there should be a competent - not quiet - and very consistent presidency. (The president) needs to have the support of political parties. And we can't treat the people of Solidarity as "bumpers." Walesa has changed so many people. I see a very positive way of thinking: The period of the revolution is finished. We don't need more political wars. We need construction, not destruction.
Q: Once Walesa came in, did he take all the space?
A: I think he went up (in the opinion polls) because of his veto against this new pension law (which changed inflation criteria from wages to prices and from semiannual to annual calculations). Of course, people don't understand that indexing twice a year means that ... inflation would be higher, that we should print money.
Q: How does your program differ from Walesa's now?
A: I have one; he doesn't. That's the main difference. I have a very specified economic program on stepped-up privatization, on reform of welfare and social security programs.
Q: Many people consider you as a credible economic person but are not sure how you would react as a full-blown political animal. So they debate about whether they should vote for the politician they know rather than the candidate they don't.
A: They have a right to think this way, but they have to make a decision.
Q: How do you present yourself to them so that they will vote for you?
A: The main thing in Poland is economics. People vote for Kwasniewski because of the economy, not because they love communists, but (because) they felt secure under the Communist regime. It's very economic. If you take polls you see that 65% are afraid of unemployment, but only 14% are unemployed. The other thing is income. In my program I have opinions on many subjects. This is necessary for the president. But the main program is the economy.
Q: How about the pace of privatization? People in many sectors say it's going much too slowly.
A: It was my opinion that (mass) privatization should have been introduced two years ago. It's not being introduced very quickly. The other thing was the Strategy for Poland, where it was written that the social security system should be changed at the beginning of this year. And it wasn't. It won't be changed until the beginning of next year. So it means we have a big hole in the budget.
Q: You said that Poland needs skilled leadership, that you don't want to have a post-Communist president, but that the country can't afford to have somebody like Walesa. What are you referring to?
A: I've said already that he has no clear strategy. He has no political support, just public support from people who say it's better to have Walesa than a person who isn't Kwasniewski. I would like to have a more competent presidency, not just words and revolutionary emotions.
Q: Can you defeat somebody who is very emotional, who stirs up fears about Kwasniewski, with a rational plan for political reform?
A: I'll try my best. I would not have a system of discussion as he does.
Q: You're the first woman who has really sought votes, the first to put yourself in front of people and ask for votes. Walesa is making accusations against you, saying you'll be at the beauty parlor getting your hair done when a crisis comes. How do you react to those sort of personal attacks?
A: It's more his problem than mine.
Q: Some people say they think you're great on economic issues, but they're worried about the point that he really is making with these jokes about getting your hair done - that you may not be tough enough in the political arena.
A: The problem that he created, which was dangerous for me, was his many lies. He used the word "sheep." I don't know what he meant, in fact. Everybody thought I was a member of the (Communist) Party, which wasn't the case. Or they ask me if I converted recently, which isn't the case, because I am Catholic from birth. So this is dangerous.
Q: Don't you both have a base in the church? Does the endorsement of the St. Catherine Society help you or hurt you when Walesa is seeking endorsements by the bishops?
A: I try to avoid the situation (of claiming) that the church supports me or Walesa. I think all people in the church should act on their own as much as possible.
Q: Did you accomplish what you wanted to this week at the International Monetary Fund meetings in the United States? Would you call it a success?
A: I think generally Poland is a success because of its growth. I had a meeting with the World Bank (where officials) mentioned the significance of structural reforms like privatization, social security. So in a way it was a success.
Q: If the runoff would be against Kwasniewski, what would hang in the balance for Poland in that vote? Do you fear that reforms could be reversed or slowed down?
A: I am sure if Kwasniewski wins, reforms will be slowed down, because they already have been slowed down in the two years of the (SLD-PSL) coalition. He is the head of the biggest party in the coalition. So, if a post-Communist would win after so many years, (he would have) the legitimacy of power. They like to be very nice for everybody and they are not open enough or courageous to do these reforms, which were started and continued by Solidarity. But they won't continue now. (The Communists) said there were some reforms after 1956, after 1970, 1980, 1988.
Q: Do you think these are the same people as the pre-1989 Communists?
A: Of course, they are the same people. Look at the Parliament.
Q: In our interview with Kwasniewski, he said that while there are a lot of 'old' people around, he had screened them out of policy jobs. He also says he would not allow a return to 'cadre communism' and says his government would carry on market reforms.
A: They have changed their face several times now. It was the same in 1948, 1956, 1970 and 1980, so it's quite normal. They have said this for half a century.
Q: Do you believe that there are no reform Communists?
A: No reform Communists. It's impossible. It's very naive to think so.
Q: How would you find working with this parliament, which is controlled by the SLD-PSL? Wouldn't there be a continued stalemate between the Parliament and the president, with almost two more years of vetoes and vetoes being overridden?
A: It's a year and a half until new (parliamentary) elections. I would have to prepare my group for the elections.
As a Warsaw University law professor specializing in Western banking systems when she was named to head the central bank four years ago, she won high marks for being a quick study on core issues of inflation and monetary policy. In high-visibility skirmishes with Finance Minister Grzegorz Kolodko during the past year, she won credibility which ultimately fueled her presidential bid as an alternative to Walesa, whom polls showed would lose in a face-off against SLD leader Aleksander Kwasniewski. She initially said she would not run if Walesa did but when he dallied and her support mushroomed, she took the plunge anyway. By late summer, she appeared to have emerged as a major challenger for the first-round vote on Nov. 5.
Since mid-September, she has been buffeted by two factors. Her very public embrace by many Catholic groups initially was a plus, until the backlash against the church's from-the-pulpit directives for Catholics to vote against non-believers, such as Kwasniewski, and its heavy-handed criticism of a movie about a gay priest. When Walesa entered the race, he targeted her as the person to beat, with attacks ranging from ridicule to hardball accusations that she is not tough enough for the job. Lately, he has called her a "new sheep," a mysterious charge repeated frequently by the Walesa-supported Radio Maria channel that implies she may have been a Communist before she was a capitalist - or only recently converted to Catholicism.
Belatedly, she has toughened her stance against Walesa. At her Sunday news conference she said "Most of us don't want Poland to be governed by post-communists; nevertheless, we cannot accept the procedures or models of Lech Walesa. We can't afford that." She said she wants a government run by the rule of law, with transparent standards that apply to everyone. Government officials cannot also hold business positions, she said, alluding to scandals concerning the current SLD-PSL coalitions and some of Walesa's associates.
She talked about the campaign and her worst-case fears if the SLD won in an interview with the Warsaw Business Journal's John Grech and Peggy Simpson.
Q: Was there one thing that made you decide to make the move into presidential politics some months ago?
A: I think I was always in politics, but I wasn't the front person. In 1980 I started with the Solidarity movement. At that time, of course, it was not a trade union but a political movement. After 1989, I was the head of the union at my faculty.
Q: The Solidarity Union at the law faculty?
A: Yes. In 1991 I was a candidate (for Parliament) of one of the very small parties. I not only supported the president, we wanted to explain to the president that he needs his own (political base), that he must have this political support. But he didn't want it. Also since 1989, I was an expert in Parliament, so I was in politics in this sense.
Q: You had been politically close to Walesa, and then you made the decision to run against him. Why was that?
A: It was about six months ago, because I found out that the results of five years were not satisfying, and I was very sorry to hear his words when he said (in 1993) that he wanted to support the left leg (leftists). Of course, I didn't say it at that time publicly.
Q: What's your niche today?
A: The one person who can fight against Kwasniewski is me. President Walesa has very strong negatives, people who say they will never vote for him ... I also believe there should be a competent - not quiet - and very consistent presidency. (The president) needs to have the support of political parties. And we can't treat the people of Solidarity as "bumpers." Walesa has changed so many people. I see a very positive way of thinking: The period of the revolution is finished. We don't need more political wars. We need construction, not destruction.
Q: Once Walesa came in, did he take all the space?
A: I think he went up (in the opinion polls) because of his veto against this new pension law (which changed inflation criteria from wages to prices and from semiannual to annual calculations). Of course, people don't understand that indexing twice a year means that ... inflation would be higher, that we should print money.
Q: How does your program differ from Walesa's now?
A: I have one; he doesn't. That's the main difference. I have a very specified economic program on stepped-up privatization, on reform of welfare and social security programs.
Q: Many people consider you as a credible economic person but are not sure how you would react as a full-blown political animal. So they debate about whether they should vote for the politician they know rather than the candidate they don't.
A: They have a right to think this way, but they have to make a decision.
Q: How do you present yourself to them so that they will vote for you?
A: The main thing in Poland is economics. People vote for Kwasniewski because of the economy, not because they love communists, but (because) they felt secure under the Communist regime. It's very economic. If you take polls you see that 65% are afraid of unemployment, but only 14% are unemployed. The other thing is income. In my program I have opinions on many subjects. This is necessary for the president. But the main program is the economy.
Q: How about the pace of privatization? People in many sectors say it's going much too slowly.
A: It was my opinion that (mass) privatization should have been introduced two years ago. It's not being introduced very quickly. The other thing was the Strategy for Poland, where it was written that the social security system should be changed at the beginning of this year. And it wasn't. It won't be changed until the beginning of next year. So it means we have a big hole in the budget.
Q: You said that Poland needs skilled leadership, that you don't want to have a post-Communist president, but that the country can't afford to have somebody like Walesa. What are you referring to?
A: I've said already that he has no clear strategy. He has no political support, just public support from people who say it's better to have Walesa than a person who isn't Kwasniewski. I would like to have a more competent presidency, not just words and revolutionary emotions.
Q: Can you defeat somebody who is very emotional, who stirs up fears about Kwasniewski, with a rational plan for political reform?
A: I'll try my best. I would not have a system of discussion as he does.
Q: You're the first woman who has really sought votes, the first to put yourself in front of people and ask for votes. Walesa is making accusations against you, saying you'll be at the beauty parlor getting your hair done when a crisis comes. How do you react to those sort of personal attacks?
A: It's more his problem than mine.
Q: Some people say they think you're great on economic issues, but they're worried about the point that he really is making with these jokes about getting your hair done - that you may not be tough enough in the political arena.
A: The problem that he created, which was dangerous for me, was his many lies. He used the word "sheep." I don't know what he meant, in fact. Everybody thought I was a member of the (Communist) Party, which wasn't the case. Or they ask me if I converted recently, which isn't the case, because I am Catholic from birth. So this is dangerous.
Q: Don't you both have a base in the church? Does the endorsement of the St. Catherine Society help you or hurt you when Walesa is seeking endorsements by the bishops?
A: I try to avoid the situation (of claiming) that the church supports me or Walesa. I think all people in the church should act on their own as much as possible.
Q: Did you accomplish what you wanted to this week at the International Monetary Fund meetings in the United States? Would you call it a success?
A: I think generally Poland is a success because of its growth. I had a meeting with the World Bank (where officials) mentioned the significance of structural reforms like privatization, social security. So in a way it was a success.
Q: If the runoff would be against Kwasniewski, what would hang in the balance for Poland in that vote? Do you fear that reforms could be reversed or slowed down?
A: I am sure if Kwasniewski wins, reforms will be slowed down, because they already have been slowed down in the two years of the (SLD-PSL) coalition. He is the head of the biggest party in the coalition. So, if a post-Communist would win after so many years, (he would have) the legitimacy of power. They like to be very nice for everybody and they are not open enough or courageous to do these reforms, which were started and continued by Solidarity. But they won't continue now. (The Communists) said there were some reforms after 1956, after 1970, 1980, 1988.
Q: Do you think these are the same people as the pre-1989 Communists?
A: Of course, they are the same people. Look at the Parliament.
Q: In our interview with Kwasniewski, he said that while there are a lot of 'old' people around, he had screened them out of policy jobs. He also says he would not allow a return to 'cadre communism' and says his government would carry on market reforms.
A: They have changed their face several times now. It was the same in 1948, 1956, 1970 and 1980, so it's quite normal. They have said this for half a century.
Q: Do you believe that there are no reform Communists?
A: No reform Communists. It's impossible. It's very naive to think so.
Q: How would you find working with this parliament, which is controlled by the SLD-PSL? Wouldn't there be a continued stalemate between the Parliament and the president, with almost two more years of vetoes and vetoes being overridden?
A: It's a year and a half until new (parliamentary) elections. I would have to prepare my group for the elections.
